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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:29 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:44 am 
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dave.... would you mind saying why you posted that and what it has to do with this?


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:01 am 
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Well it looks to me that he wants to highlight the title for the level "Our Mutual Fiend" a play on words, possibly hinting at the G-Man?

If not... well then I guess I just read too much into things


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:37 am 
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My best guess is that he wanted to contribute to the "friend of a f=iend" discussion. His would be a very valid point, however, that page has been up for far longer than The Orange Box has been out, by a factor of several months. So sadly, while it is an interesting idea, we can't really use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:51 am 
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Well, I know we were basically off of it, but just in case, I wanted to put the bullet in the "friend of a fiend" theory's head. I was looking through Mrs. M's own posts and saw this.
Quoth Minerva:

Quote:
So you've had your fun, so now time for a serious question.

This forum.

A centre for useful and productive discussion, or an inevitable trap for lesser, pseudo-sentient drones - driven only by capitalism, illegitimate pharmaceuticals and pornography?

The trial was not just psychological, it was technical. Deep, unpleasant modifications to this new world's structure have resulted in a more bearable level of administration - but it's now down to you to decide.

Should this forum continue to exist? Or shall its deletion be real, final and absolute?

A choice. I hope you consider it carefully.


A friend of a friend.


Nevermore.


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:42 am 
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Brilliantly stated! I guess that puts an end to that little theory, barring some new evidence.

And Dave...
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well i think you're just plain ol' wrong there Terrepin, tbh mate. i think it has something to do with something...?
like the new style.


Care to elaborate?


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:53 am 
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About the screenshot: I haven't played the english version, but in the italian version the level name is "il nostro comune amico", which means "our mutual friend. Does it really read "fiend" in the english version?

However, Mrs. M.'s intention is, as clearly stated above by ZeroMachine, to sign herself "a friend of a friend" (which leads me to interrogate who is this shared friend, if he/she exists: could be just a cool signature, here...).
If in the first message we are inclined to read "a friend of a fiend", and if it is intentional, it's Adam's intention, not Mrs. M's.

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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:19 pm 
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Wow, do I feel dumbfounded... I had never once noticed that it said "Fiend" and not "Friend" in the chapter list and save menus. I always just glanced and assumed it was Mutual Friend as Eli says.

::palm to face::

To answer your question, yes it does say fiend in the English version. Maybe it's because the play on words wouldn't make as much sense in Italian? I don't know the language, so I'm guessing. Is it true?

As for if it has anything to do with it, it all depends on when Valve started helping Adam with Metastasis, and how far into production with HL2E2 they were.


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:43 pm 
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vahagn wrote:
About the screenshot: I haven't played the english version, but in the italian version the level name is "il nostro comune amico", which means "our mutual friend. Does it really read "fiend" in the english version?

However, Mrs. M.'s intention is, as clearly stated above by ZeroMachine, to sign herself "a friend of a friend" (which leads me to interrogate who is this shared friend, if he/she exists: could be just a cool signature, here...).
If in the first message we are inclined to read "a friend of a fiend", and if it is intentional, it's Adam's intention, not Mrs. M's.


You must keep in mind that as Adam's creation, Minerva's intentions and Adam's intentions are one and the same. It is Adam who determines what Minerva's intentions are in the first place.

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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Quote:
You must keep in mind that as Adam's creation, Minerva's intentions and Adam's intentions are one and the same. It is Adam who determines what Minerva's intentions are in the first place.

I prefer thinking of it as a novel: Adam is the author, Miss M. (who says she's married? My rusty mythology says she wasn't!) is just a character, therefore the author can have knowledge of things that some characters don't, even if almost (but not fully) omniscient as Miss M.
Don't know if my point is clear :-)

EDIT: woohps! I forgot about the "fiend" matter! Yes the play on words is almost impossible in italian, let alone for the italian translation of episode two...
In fact, I did recall Eli saying "friend" (there's no italian dubbing), but knowing that the chapter is called "our mutual fiend"... wow, that's some new perspective!

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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:28 am 
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My personal take on the "Our Mutual Fiend" bit is that Valve made a typo. It's a bit less noticeable when it's not right next to "Friend" ...


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:29 am 
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I' not trying to be a jerk and shoot you down here, but I don't think they would let that slide


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:54 pm 
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TrenchFeeder wrote:
I' not trying to be a jerk and shoot you down here, but I don't think they would let that slide


I have to agree with that. After what probably amounts to months of play-testing, I really doubt a typo would be allowed to slip through. And even if it did, Valve would have patched it by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:16 pm 
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Eh, maybe. I prefer to follow Hanlon's razor, but with the number of people working on it, yeah, I guess you're probably right.


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 Post subject: Re: Who (or what) is Minerva?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:08 pm 
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That saying fits so oddly well in this conversation that it scares me...


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